Kyactus
Level 7
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Posts: 2,821
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Post by Kyactus on Mar 31, 2012 14:14:20 GMT
SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER Well, i've warned you If you're here, then you finished ME 3 or you just want to spoil yourself everything because you don't play the game / you're stupid *points at tangy* Anyway, we all know the plot holes ME 3's ending left unexplained, right? The ending itself is good, but it fucks up all the decisions Shepard did through all the game, his behaviour, everything. And only if you choose Destruction (so, renegade side), you'll see Shepard breathing at the end for some seconds. Most of this can be explained by this, imo, beautiful and great video. It's just a theory, sure, but it makes A LOT of sense. Let's hope for Bioware to make something like this in the DLC we will get on 25th April, that will better explain the ending. If they did, they are fucking good writers, since they planned everything from the beginning, mostly. (doubt they will, tho. No faith in publishers at all xD). The video is long, but it's worth the time, trust me www.youtube.com/watch?v=ythY_GkEBckThe questions at the video ending are interesting too :3
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Post by D Moness on Mar 31, 2012 17:21:20 GMT
Nope the indoctrination idea doesn't make sense.
This theory is easy dismissed by the prothean VI. It detected T.I.M being indoctrinated and didn't want to talk to him about what he knew due to that. It lets Shepard in on the secret therefore Shepard isn't under influence of the Reapers. Seeing as most people think the indoctrination started with the Arrival DLC this can not be correct.
The only thing that can not really be explained with the ending is why the 2 squadmates you pick for the last missions on earth are on the Normandy again(though as some people have pointed out they didn't see the dead bodies of the squadmates when the reaper started to attack from the "portal").
Watching the vid .. they say T.I.M had blue glowing eyes because he was indoctrinated but T.I.M. always had augmented eyes(See start of ME 2 and the comic Redemption). Also the vids on the ship and his altering appearance suggest that he was indoctrinated (and had reaper tech inserted into himself after bringing back shepard and creating EDI.
Also the reapers using Hacket's voice to get him into the next "trail" would be a first. Indoctrination uses whispers noting loud enough and obvious enough to be a certain voice.
As for the reapers using the illusionary boy. The protean VI already mentioned there was something bigger/controlling the reapers. This would mean the protean VI must have been indoctrinated as well or else why mention something that is behind the reapers but that doesn't make sense.
Also a few points that are used to point to this theory is just game-technically made that way. Also why do the nightmares have to point to indoctrination and just not Shepard just losing his/her mind due to all the people that are dying.
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Kyactus
Level 7
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Posts: 2,821
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Post by Kyactus on Mar 31, 2012 17:53:05 GMT
Shepard isn't indoctrinated yet when meeting the prothean VI. You cannot escape indoctrination, because the only escape would be shoot yourself (like Saren and T.I.M. did, even if T.I.M. shooting himself is probably just something happening in shepard's mind). When you are indoctrinated, you don't choose to DESTROY reapers. When Shepard was on Thessia, he wanted to destroy them, while Cerberus wanted to control them. But you cannot control something that is already controlling you (alas, T.I.M. was indoctrinated already, probably since before ME 2 or something like that). So Shepard wasn't indoctrinated when meeting the prothean IV on Thessia yet. The real process of indoctrination probably starts at the end of Earth Battle. As regard Hacket's voice, anderson, T.I.M., etc being in the citadel, it's just something that happen in Shepard's mind. Look, it wouldn't make sense for the reaper's ray to bring people on citadel in two different places. It wouldn't make sense that only with the renegade option you see shepard breathing. How could he be on Earth if he went on the citadel, when we all see it exploded whatever option you choose? To actually dismiss the theory, you should properly answer to all the questions at the end of the video
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Post by D Moness on Mar 31, 2012 18:38:43 GMT
As regard Hacket's voice, anderson, T.I.M., etc being in the citadel, it's just something that happen in Shepard's mind. Like i said before indoctrination is whispers not fully formed voices. See the novel retribution (Grayson never heard fully voices but only whispers (also the reapers took over his complete mind for some times when his will wasn't strong enough to fight them) but even that took longer then then what people claim Shepard's indoctrination began(and Cerberus inserted Reaper tech in his body). Saying the indoctrination starts at when he/she gets hit by the laser is not correct with the codex that says indoctrination takes at least days if not months to indoctrinate people. Also if people indeed see the dreams as indoctrination that already started when they left earth so the protean VI would have seen it when they were on thessia. The first scientist that discovered and worked on Sovereign took weeks/months to be fully indoctrinated(and yes the novels are canon so can be used) also turning insane. As for the beam it is already said they are used to bring slaves/people onto the citidal. Reapers convert sentient beings into reapers so they need bodies to do that. They just continue what they send out the collecters to do. So why would the reapers use the starchild as another form of indoctrination to Shepard, even if this is not how it works accourding to the codex. The dreams are more the way how it works, the starchild is also something the prothean VI more or less said there was. Saren already knew the true reason for the Reapers to exist and the starchild explained it even more. There are already enough wholes in the theory to make it incorrect.
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Tangerine
Level 7
~Emissary of Dancing~
Posts: 2,682
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Post by Tangerine on Mar 31, 2012 19:35:13 GMT
Lol Kya Im here like you guessssed
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Kyactus
Level 7
~ Black Ballonist ~
Posts: 2,821
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Post by Kyactus on Mar 31, 2012 21:05:02 GMT
I wasn't clear.
Shepard's indoctrination probably started since the fìrst meet with the sovereign. But Shep wilpower is stronger than reapers expected so the indoctrination took much longer. The climax of tragic events during ME 3 has weakened shep willpower, that's why he starts to see allucination.
The Protean VI only alert who is FULLY indoctrinated. TIM, Kai Leng, etc are fully indoctrinated since they believe they can control reapers, but you can't control something that is already controlling
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Kyactus
Level 7
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Posts: 2,821
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Post by Kyactus on Mar 31, 2012 21:12:13 GMT
you. On Thessia, Shep isn't fully indoctrinated, since he wants to destroy reapers, thus the VI does not consider him fully indoctrinated, and continue speaking.
The final fight on earth is the climax of the indoctrination process. Shep willpower is weakened by A LOT now. Shep never reaches citadel using the ray. It's just something happening in his mind, the last effort to overcome indoctrination.
If you choose control or sinthesis, you "accept" indoctrination and you basically die. in fact you don't
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Kyactus
Level 7
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Posts: 2,821
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Post by Kyactus on Mar 31, 2012 21:19:00 GMT
see shep anymore, and he gets the blue glowing eye, tipical of indoctrinated people.
But if you choose to destroy them, you overcome indoctrinaction and you win your PERSONAL battle against reapers. Now You get to see the last piece of ending in which shep is alive. See this scene again. In the time before shep breathes, you can hear the whispers. In the exact moment Shep breathes, you don't hear any more whispers, since shep won against indoctrination. The reapers are still atking earth tho. That's
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Post by D Moness on Mar 31, 2012 21:24:24 GMT
The Protean VI only alert who is FULLY indoctrinated. TIM, Kai Leng, etc are fully indoctrinated since they believe they can control reapers, but you can't control something that is already controlling That is only a guess. Since we do not know if it only detects fully indoctrinated people or people that are not fully indoctrinated so this can not really be used. Also the vid says the VI could be wrong (that is like saying it doesn't fit with my theory so the npc might be lying). Unless the DLC will prove me wrong i do not believe in those theories that are on the internet and think the ending is as simple as just shown.
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Kyactus
Level 7
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Posts: 2,821
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Post by Kyactus on Mar 31, 2012 21:24:40 GMT
the purpose of the DLC: to have a galaxy ending and see if reapers are defeated and how. The theory explains much everything. If it isn't true, explain me why and how shep is on earth breathing AFTER he exploded with the citadel Sorry for the 4 posts but PSP won't let me write more than a tot so I had to split it in 4 sides xD
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Post by D Moness on Mar 31, 2012 22:36:05 GMT
the purpose of the DLC: to have a galaxy ending and see if reapers are defeated and how. The theory explains much everything. If it isn't true, explain me why and how shep is on earth breathing AFTER he exploded with the citadel Who says he/she is on earth. The vid is far to close up to see if the rubble Shepard is on is on earth or a part of the Citadel. We see the Citadel explode in pieces but not crashing to earth so it doesn't have to be on earth (the small clip doesn't show any prove where it is). So people with the indoctrination theory says earth. I say on the destroyed Citadel. Also if the indoctrination theory is right and the synthesize and control option indeed mean Shepard is fully indoctrinated (with the explanation that this is true because he dies in both cases) then why show the reapers pulling out. That wouldn't make sense if Shepard is under complete control of the reapers they shouldn't have to pull out. Also the theory that Shepard's inner mind thinks that will happen because he is fully indoctrinated, the theory is there is no Shepard left after those 2 choices since he killed his own will by picking that. Why would a subconcious that is no longer there try to still fool himself/herself. I mean they are here to weed out advance civilizations why would they leave after Shepard's mind has been taken Also someone found out if you do not make a choice the reapers will destroy the citadel and end your life (and get a mission failure). Why would that happen if this just happens in Shepards mind. Also the eyes are blue when you are indoctrinated not true. T.I.M.'s eyes were augmented and blue way before he was indoctrinated. Also Doctor Kenson (from Arrival DLC) is indoctrinated and had yellow eyes. whoops edit out a mistake
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Kyactus
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Post by Kyactus on Apr 1, 2012 13:36:12 GMT
the purpose of the DLC: to have a galaxy ending and see if reapers are defeated and how. The theory explains much everything. If it isn't true, explain me why and how shep is on earth breathing AFTER he exploded with the citadel Who says he/she is on earth. The vid is far to close up to see if the rubble Shepard is on is on earth or a part of the Citadel. We see the Citadel explode in pieces but not crashing to earth so it doesn't have to be on earth (the small clip doesn't show any prove where it is). So people with the indoctrination theory says earth. I say on the destroyed Citadel. Surviving a mass explosion like that, at like some cms of distance? doubt so. At the beginning of ME 2 he was nearly dieing already, and it took a lot of time and technologies to bring him alive again xD Plus, the blueish "shroud" near his body seems the same you see near the reapers' ray on earth. In fact Shep was hitted in there. Also, what are those whispers you can hear before Shep is breathing? If he is in citadel, like you say, he should be alone, and he couldn't hear any whispers. And why in the exact moment he starts to breath, these whispers fade out? Didn't you said that indoctrination uses whispers and not loud voices? And lastly, the scene where shep breathes appear only when you choose renegade. Do you really think BioWare would make canonic the renegade option, killing all Geth, AIs etc.? Also if the indoctrination theory is right and the synthesize and control option indeed mean Shepard is fully indoctrinated (with the explanation that this is true because he dies in both cases) then why show the reapers pulling out. That wouldn't make sense if Shepard is under complete control of the reapers they shouldn't have to pull out. Also the theory that Shepard's inner mind thinks that will happen because he is fully indoctrinated, the theory is there is no Shepard left after those 2 choices since he killed his own will by picking that. Why would a subconcious that is no longer there try to still fool himself/herself. I mean they are here to weed out advance civilizations why would they leave after Shepard's mind has been taken Reapers tricked him in thinking that he actually made the right choice. Same thing happens for the blue/res shifted colors. It's all a trick of the reapers. Also, the ending is not an ending. That's why they are releasing the DLC. Also someone found out if you do not make a choice the reapers will destroy the citadel and end your life (and get a mission failure). Why would that happen if this just happens in Shepards mind. How coudn't you make a choice anyway? And again, it's just something that happen in Shepard's mind. You think it's really happening, but it's not. Shepard never reached the Citadel. By not choosing (even if that's even possible, doubt about it), you fell into indoctrination, probably. Also the eyes are blue when you are indoctrinated not true. T.I.M.'s eyes were augmented and blue way before he was indoctrinated. Also Doctor Kenson (from Arrival DLC) is indoctrinated and had yellow eyes. whoops edit out a mistake Saren had blue eyes when indoctrinated. All reapers enemies have blue eyes too, if you notice: husks, turian ones etc. Also, whatever option you choose, you see galaxy portal explode. In Arrival, making a portal explode caused a supernova. Why it wouldn't happen now? Anyway, we can debate about this for a lot, since it's just a theory and not something official xD I find it a good theory, and it explains a lot of thing, imho.
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Post by D Moness on Apr 1, 2012 14:40:37 GMT
Well since i am bored a bit anyway lets see how much I can refute from this theory. I will skip bits that just state fact (ake even the strongest will has weaknesses and rachni are used in me3 again unless i think there is something to add). This will be a long read.
"Saren believing synthesis would save the galaxy."
He never fully says that. We know he is completely indoctrinated so what he think is his solution to help the galaxy might as well be the reason the collecters were harvesting humans. Since the Reapers idea of preserving advanced species is by adding them to their collective. Not conclusive
"Sovereign merely used Saren to find the conduit. Rewrite the the control panel on the citadel and let the reapers in"
Since the Protheans sabotages the Keepers Sovereign needed help from organics. Saren as the perfect pawn for that. Not prove that Shepard has been indoctrinated though. Irrelevant
"Sovereign recognizes Shepard's ability as a corrupted military leader and specter. You would make a useful agent."
When talking to Shepard directly it shows disdain about organic life and also tells Shepard resistance is futile. So it doesn't think that. Shepard is no use to Sovereign. Also the join us sovereign is talking about is the assimilation the reapers do with the help of the Collectors. false
(extra info) The Rachni queen tells about indoctrination as shadowy figures , voices filled with fear that are hushed one by one. Fear shattering their minds. This in combination with the codex saying the voices for indoctrination are hushed alien voices is something to remember.
As for how much Shepard has been around indoctrinated thing, people and reaper tech. The only fact we have is that people get indoctrinated by coming in direct contact with reaper tech. It is never been conclusive that being around people or items that are/have been indoctrinated will make you indoctrinated as well. It is brainwashing not a virus that will hop from person to person. Cases are know about people that have not been indoctrinated but have been working a long time with people who where(see Kaylee Sanders). The only thing that got him close to reaper tech was the derelict reaper ship to get the item to get through the omega 4 relay, the collectors base and object Rho. Only Rho's exposure could be long enough to start indoctrination(since we have no idea how long you were out cold) (end extra info)
"You begin seeing hallucinations of a boy."
There is no way at that time to come to the conclusion that the boy is real or not. Just because a mass effect game never had kids in them doesn't mean the child you see now isn't real. Inconclusive
"Shepard is under a lot of pressure in ME3. The part of you to resist the indoctrination has to fight more and more"
In the previous games Shepard lost a lot of people. Not to mention he wiped out a whole Batarian world to hold of the Reaper invasion. Indoctrination or not that is a lot of stress, pressure and guild eating away at him. Not conclusive
"Shepards mind begins to slowly divide, illustrated with nightmares."
This is the best piece of evidence in the whole case. It also means the indoctrination started way early(some claim that it only started after the beam hit you in the endgame but then how would they explain this). The nightmares are partly correct with what the Rachni queen said indoctrination feels like. The problem i have are that the voices you hear from the shadowy figures are shipmates you lost. So more then indoctrinations it looks more like nightmares about all the people Shepard lost(this is very obvious when you lose Tali in the Quarian/Geth quest line, the first voice you hear in the next nightmare is Tali's. Might be true
"Only Shepard can see the boy"
Anderson is at an angle where he can not see into the airduct. He is also in another room when the boy spoke from deep inside the airduct. (also the growl can be explained by the many Reapers just outside attacking). Also Anders is in a hurry to get to the Normandy to ask why Shepard is kneeling at an airduct. As to why people are not helping the boy. That can be explained as their focus might be on the attacking Reapers(fear freezes a lot of people). Also if the boy didn't exist why did the shuttle leave the monet he got on board and not the moment the person before the boy got on. It makes no sense in this situation to wait any longer then necessary(i mean every second counts). unlikely
"Vega noticed a hum"
Wondering why this is mentioned since if this is about the indoctrination theory why would Vega hear something that should be in Shepard's head. Irrelevant
"But wouldn't the VI detect it. Not necessarily in the early and subtle stages"
There is not enough proof that says it can only detect fully indoctrinated people. Also if the indoctrination started at object Rho it is not at an early stages anymore. Since it has been 6 month between The object Rho and the start of mass effect 3 more then enough time to leave the early stages of indoctrination The remember bit is more of a copout. It doesn't fit in my theory so it is probably wrong. Not enough facts to back it up
"T.I.M. and Cerberus are manipulated to work for the reapers believing that to destroy them would be wrong."
Big duh. T.I.M. always wanted to rule the reapers to make humanity the strongest species out there anyway. Still doesn't prove Shepard is indoctrinated. Also the bit where he resisted for years(i believe they refer to T.I.M. is incorrect. There hasn't been enough proof that T.I.M. has been indoctrinated for years. The opposite is more likely. He always wanted something to make humanity great after they found out how the reapers controlled the husks he let himself be implanted with Reaper tech with the idea he could control them. The moment he did this was the moment the reapers owned him. Irrelevant
"Blue eyes when fully indoctrinated like Saren and T.I.M."
T.I.M. already had augmented eyes way before he was indoctrinated. Sarens original eyecolor is not known so that could have been blue all along. Also the doctor from the dlc arrival had been fully indoctrinated and has yellow eyes. False
"Why didn't the Reapers deactivate the beam"
Good question. Do not forget they still believe organics are inferior to them. They still think organics will never beat them. People that feel superior to other will make fatal mistakes. Also remember that the Citadel was moved to earth because they had the biggest Reaper force on that planet. They used the beam to transport bodies. After all the small setbacks Shepard gave them the Reapers still feel superior and after countless of cycles they have never been beaten before. Slightly irrelevant
"Harbinger could have killed Shepard immediately but it is not his intention to kill you"
It is decimating the entire force running towards the beam. Also how would it recognize Shepard from way up where it is. It is just killing of the attacking force at random. not true
"You seem paralyzed and unable to evade the beam."
Doesn't match up with the next remark saying the real indoctrination start after you get hit with the beam. The ground is shaking, explosions everywhere not the ideal place to try and avoid something. Take out paralyzed and i will call it a fact.
"This is where the illusion begins and everything is in Shepards mind."
This is going against what the codex and the Rachni queen tells us about indoctrination. These are not shadowy figures roaming around. We are not hearing alien hushed voices suggesting fear and terror. This fact alone proves this whole theory is wrong. untrue
"Why would Mayor Coates not notice Shepard or Anderson reach the beam."
For one Shepard had been hit by Harbinger and appeared to be dead just like the whole assault party. Also it might be difficult to spot 1 or 2 people more or less crawling towards the beam in all the chaos. inconclusive
"Why would the other soldiers retreat now that Harbinger is gone"
We see Harbinger go away from the beam we do NOT see where it is going. The other soldiers saw the assault party being wiped out in seconds, if Harbinger was going my way i would retreat and many people with me. Not enough facts to support this one.
"Tree and scrubs are suddenly there and weren't before."
Yeah because you were focusing your attention to the surrounding plant and wildlife when running towards that beam you noticed all the non trees while evading Harbinger shooting at you. Not seeing them due to all the chaos before doesn't mean they weren't there. inconclusive
"Why would the reapers beam you into a room that gets you to the room to open the citadel's arms"
Same reply as to why the beam is still activated. Arrogance on there part. It is also the place the beam the dead bodies into. slightly relevant
"The pistol has infinite ammo and you can not kill or physically affect the keepers or Anderson."
The ammo bit might just be a gameplay bit since you can not find any ammo anymore. So you can not hurt or kill NPC's so it must be an illusion. then the whole 3 games is an illusion since you can hardly kill/hurt most npc's in this game. irrelevant
"The surrounding look familiar." "Harbinger uses Shepard's memory to create this place." "Contains elements of the collector's ship, shadow broker's ship and the closed citadel skybox"
That is because the one that created the reapers created the citadel and the relays. We think the Protheans made those but that was refuted in the previous games. The innerworkings of the citadel would look like the innerworkings of a reaper craft if they were created by the same "thing". Since the Reapers leave all that tech to be used by advancing civilizations it might not be that weird that the ship the shadow broker uses was created by the same entity that made the reapers and Citadel. True it looks the same doesn't mean indoctrination.
"Anderson couldn't have reach before Shepard there was only one path to reach it."
That we saw, there could have been more path that lead to that place we just didn't have time to check it out. Also if you wanna go technically it looks like the corridor that was closed of at the back ends at the terminal that looks like no way out. This is more a gameplay issue then prove of the theory. Also like before that you do not notice any other paths doesn't mean they are not there. untrue
"Reaper voices inside Shepard's head." "Anderson(paragon)" "T.I.M.(renegade)"
Doesn't fit what we know about indoctrination. there are not alien whispering voices that induce fear. Nor are they shadowy figures. These are humanoid voiced not soft reaper whispers. Not true
"You see the darkness trying to consume him"
That or he is trying to fight unconsciousness for being severely wounded by Harbinger's blast. Can be either way.
Up next is the 3 way dialogue between you , Anderson and T.I.M. it doesn't come up with new "fact"to prove the theory but more or less only repeat what already been said. Not going to waste any time on this since it is already proven wrong with the bit above. Also it says if you do not rescue Anders from getting shot by T.I.M. you die but that happens because T.I.M. first shoots Anderson and then you wouldn't it be more logical if T.I.M. shoots Anders you would die immediately seeing as the indoctrinated part of your mind just killed the part that was resisting(since if the indoctrination theory was true you would be fully indoctrinated now). There would be no reason for a second shot.
"You are bleeding from the same spot where you shot Anderson"
It indeed does show a hand full of blood, it doesn't show the wound is on the same place you shot Anderson. the wound could be much higher and just ran down your body until you touched it with your hand. Unless it shows the wound itself this is inconclusive.
"The Reapers use Hacket's voice." "But didn't Hacket think nobody made it to the citadel."
Again doesn't make sense reapers when indoctrinating are using there own voices to whisper to the people. Also they whisper of fear not trying to appeal to a heroic side. Also to the people saying why would Hacket try to contact you when nobody saw you enter the beam. The Citadel's arms opened up. There has to be someone there. as for why the radio still works, you heard people over the radio calling to retreat. false
"The reapers have manipulated Shepard using the illusionary boy."
That or the "God" uses the image of the boy that has been on Shepard's mind a very long time to gave a more familiar shape to the entities existence. Inconclusive
"You realize the battle isn't over yet. It just shifted settings."
As long as the weapon didn't fire the battle is indeed not over indoctrinated or not. irrelevant.
"Shepard must choice destruction to overcome indoctrination. The only way to survive."
Or just that the other 2 options will destroy his body that is just how the weapon works. It has nothing to do with indoctrination. There are just some times you can not survive. inconclusive.
"Reversal of colors is just another trick"
There is no reversal. blue is paragon, not destroying a civilization but letting them retreat again is a paragon option so blue. Red is renegade, destroying the reapers is still destroying a species so that is a renegade option (see Rachni decision for the same)
"By choosing blue you lose everything" "Synthesis would create husks"
It both states that picking these both endings would make Shepard fully indoctrinated. If so then why in both endings are the Reapers retreating. If Shepard is fully indoctrinated the Reapers have fun and could go with this cycle there is nothing the their way anymore. No reason to turn tail and run. Unless it is not an illusion and it is true . Then both decisions are enough for the reapers to leave. By controlling them you just send them back where they came from and through synthesis there are no more organics to create chaos. Also when picking the synthesis ending you clearly see Joker step out of the normandy being a human/synthetic hybrid. He however is not a husk. false (and a big blow for this theory)
"Shepard returns to reality."
people say he suddenly reappears on earth. The vid doesn't show enough of the surrounding to prove he is on earth. he might still be on a part of the citadel. The citadel did indeed explode but we never see it falling back to earth or that it vaporized when exploding. The citadel is so huge that parts may still be around after that explosion. inconclusive.
Ok now for the question round. seems like some i already explained before might refer to above or might not.
1) What are the meaning of the dreams?
Easy nightmares from all the people Shepard lost. A small convo at the memorial at the normandy will tell you that Shepard is suffering due to all the casualties. Also the fact that the voices are from lost crewmembers make this just a mind slight cracking because of all the death around Shepard.
2) Why does nobody see the body?
people are in fear of all the reapers around them. Also the shuttle transport takes of the moment the boy is inside, if the boy was fake it would have left earlier since in these situations every second counts.
3) Why would Shepard be immune to indoctrination?
Could ask the same about all your crew members a handful are spending the same amount around reaper tech and are not indoctrinated either.
4) Why does Harbinger take special interest in Shepard?
Shepard has on multiple occasions stop the advancing Reapers. Shepard has been a massive thorn in the Reapers side. It is logical that they take interest in what is being a pain to them.
5) Why are there trees from the dream around the beam?
Trees grow on earth maybe. You dream of things you know.
6) Why does your sidearm have infinite ammo?
Game design .. why did the weapons from ME1 go from using no clips at all to using clips in ME 2 (sometimes things are just a game design).
7) Why is the beam directly leading to the panel that lower the arms?
Reaper arrogance. They think they are untouchable also maybe the beam transports people to different places. Since they use the beam to throw in dead bodies it might be better to have different warping locations since the bodycount is really high.
8) Why are there corpses everywhere on the Citadel, just like on the collectors ship?
Do not forget that besides killing advance species before they can bring to much chaos in the world they add these species to there collective and in their mind saving there legacy by adding them to their collective. They need bodies to create new reapers that is why the citadel is filled with bodies.
9) How did Anderson enter the beam before Shepard?
Easy we have no clue how long Shepard was unconscious and we have not seen what happened in between. The fact is that Anderson could have entered the beam while Shepard was unconscious.
10) Why was Anderson teleported to another location and how did he arrive to the Panel first?
If he entered the beam before Shepard it is an easy conclusion he would reach the panel first. As for being teleported to another location. Who knows maybe the ending spot for the teleport is not a fixed location. Yes this is speculation but the indoctrination theory is even more filled with speculation.
11) How did Hacket know that Shepard made it to the Citadel after the entire force was decimated?
Since the arms opened up someone from the assualt team must have reached it. Who knows how many people Hacket tried to reach before he called Shepard, who is the only one to react. He could have tried to contact all the other people that were in the assault team before reaching Shepard. There was a lot of time before the arms started to open and Hacket radio broadcast.
12) Why is Shepard at the same spot as Anderson?
This is inconclusive as the only thing shown is a bloody hand. The wound could have been much higher. Due to gravity on the Citadel blood will flow downwards.
13) How come the normandy escapes with Shepards last 2 squadmates?
This is a good question with no real answer. the question is why would this only point prove that Shepard is indoctrinated.
14) Wouldn't the explosion of mass relays cause a supernova like in arrival?
It sort of does. The energy blast that comes from it just seconds before exploding is like a supernova and will reach every corner of space. It just isn't the same destructive version as you get when you throw a massive meteor into the mass relay. Different circumstances gives different end results.
15) Why can't Shepard kill the Keepers or Anderson?
Why can't you kill many of the NPC's is the 3 games. Why can't i kill my own team members when playing. Irrelevant question
16) What is the growl that Shepard hears on the Citadel?
The many reapers fighting and being killed just outside in space. I mean there is a massive spacebattle just outside.
In conclusion: There is not enough fact that prove this theory. Most are based on irrelevant points or just false facts. The few big pillars that this theory rests are false or could go both ways.
The only question that can not be explained is what your squadmates are doing on the normandy. That alone doesn't prove the indoctrination even more fun this is the only question that hasn't been used to prove the theory is correct.
Like i said before. I do not think the indoctrination theory is correct. Also I am not doing this again.
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Post by Rinn on Apr 2, 2012 17:24:34 GMT
I haven't read this entire thread cos it's long and I'm hungry BUUUUUUUUUT... I FINISHED IT! I chose Destroy, apparently my EMS was too low for Shep to live even though the bar was almost full, stupid Galactic Readiness was 67% =( But my squad survived, Normandy landed on a jungle planet, humans lived but Earth was devastated (I think... flames shot through Earth and wiped out the Reapers, and the soldiers were cheering, but I didn't take notice of the buildings) etc. I honestly don't know what to think. It was a disappointment, but I don't know if it's because so many people have been going on about the ending, or because it actually was a bit of a crap ending. It didn't really feel like I had much control over what I was doing, and despite all my preparations and obsessive completion of all quests and extra bits, I didn't get the ending I wanted. I also missed hooking up Joker and EDI properly =/ Garrus lived though, thank goodness <3 I just want another game. I want more Mass Effect.
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Post by D Moness on Apr 2, 2012 18:08:14 GMT
I haven't read this entire thread cos it's long and I'm hungry BUUUUUUUUUT... You are gonna read at least the last post >.> It took me almost 3 hours to create that post to debunk that theory so even if i have to force you to read it you will. For me the ending could already never outdo the ending of the Persius Veil quests. I sided with the Geth too much and the Quarians didn't listen to reason so the Geth literally obliterated the Quarians while protecting themselves(bloody frikking stupid-ass Quarians). At that point Legion already die due to uploading the Reapers code to make them true AI's. Due to the massacre of the Quarians Tali commits suicide. So in one mission i lost 2 team members and got the Quarian race wiped from existence. All I wanted was to try and make peace between those two... To add insult to injury the destroy option (that i picked) also destroys the Geth. :/
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