Kyactus
Level 7
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_blue.png)
~ Black Ballonist ~
Posts: 2,821
|
Post by Kyactus on Apr 2, 2012 18:08:57 GMT
I haven't read this entire thread cos it's long and I'm hungry ![8D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/insane.png) BUUUUUUUUUT... I FINISHED IT! I chose Destroy, apparently my EMS was too low for Shep to live even though the bar was almost full, stupid Galactic Readiness was 67% =( But my squad survived, Normandy landed on a jungle planet, humans lived but Earth was devastated (I think... flames shot through Earth and wiped out the Reapers, and the soldiers were cheering, but I didn't take notice of the buildings) etc. I honestly don't know what to think. It was a disappointment, but I don't know if it's because so many people have been going on about the ending, or because it actually was a bit of a crap ending. It didn't really feel like I had much control over what I was doing, and despite all my preparations and obsessive completion of all quests and extra bits, I didn't get the ending I wanted. I also missed hooking up Joker and EDI properly =/ Garrus lived though, thank goodness <3 I just want another game. I want more Mass Effect. Now just ask yourself if it is possible for a human to survive an explosion like that distant only some cms, after you were severely injured by a cosmic ray of a mass-killing machine ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png) You could always go next to a fuel tank and shoot it with a gun. Tell us if you're still alive tho xD The ending just fucked up all the choices we made through all the games. Also, Anderson tells us to go and recruit all the races through all the galaxy to help against reapers... and they don't even have a single moment of glory, they are just there, insignificant. The whole story revolves around the crucible. They could have at least told that to me before, I wouldn't go travel all around the galaxy to recruit useless people, if I just had to misteriously activate that thing ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png) just one thing: If i'm not wrong, after you enter the ray that brings you to the citadel, Anderson tells you that he FOLLOWED you into the ray. Then how is it even possible for him to be into the command console of the citadel before you? XD The way to the command console is only one, as you could see. Also, I've noticed that often, in the last dialogue between shep, T.I.M. and Anderson, shepard holds his head and the screen's corner becomes black, with black waves going around and around. I wonder what's that then, if we cannot believe to the indoctrination theory. Again, i'll point out again at the incomprehensible whispers (indoctrination whispers?) we can hear during the final secret ending before shep breathes, and why they "magical" fade out when he starts to breath again. Sure gig, you tried to answer to many points of the theory, but allow me to say that what you say are speculations too. For example, you can't be sure about indoctrination. Maybe Codex, Saren and Rachni Queen experienced a certain kind of indoctrination. Maybe there is another kind, maybe it depends on the willpower of the subject, who knows. And would Bioware make canon the renegade ending? Because yes, that's the canon ending because only with DESTRUCTION you unlock the final secret ending where we see shep breathes. Of course, let's just kill all VI/AI/Geth etc.! Let's fuck up all the choices we made in the three games before \o/ Really, if it's not indoctrination, then there is something behind all of this in any case. The ending, as it is shown, has no sense at all. It may not be indoctrination, but I do still believe that all that is happening after he was hitted by Harbinger's ray it's happening in Shepard's mind only. Too many hints about that. We'll just know everything on 25th April, i guess ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png)
|
|
|
Post by D Moness on Apr 2, 2012 18:14:11 GMT
Sure gig, you tried to answer to many points of the theory, but allow me to say that what you say are speculations too. You can't be sure about indoctrination. Maybe Codex, Saren and Rachni Queen experienced a kind of indoctrination. Maybe there is another kind, it depends on the willpower of the subject, who knows. Again a copout reason ... maybe the characters in the game are wrong ... maybe the codex is wrong ... yeah maybe everything that is in the game is wrong. If nothing in the game can be trusted nothing is right and everything you think will be wrong. I answered all the question with info from ingame world and the codex. If you can not trust those things or want to ignore it there is no reason for a discussion
|
|
|
Post by D Moness on Apr 2, 2012 18:18:51 GMT
Also, I've noticed that often, in the last dialogue between shep, T.I.M. and Anderson, shepard holds his head and the screen's corner becomes black, with black waves going around and around. I wonder what's that then, if we cannot believe to the indoctrination theory. How about incomming unconsciousness from the bloodloss and injury due being hit by Harbingers beam. Like i said before and like nobody in the whole game mentioned or read in the codex is that indoctrination uses real looking hallucinations. The moment people can point me to that one i might believe more in indoctrination. The dream yes that is how indoctrination works, vivid hallucinations no.
|
|
|
Post by D Moness on Apr 2, 2012 18:26:20 GMT
Really, if it's not indoctrination, then there is something behind all of this in any case. The ending, as it is shown, has no sense at all. Why would a being that created the reapers to add the consciousness of advanced civilizations every 50.000 years to prevent those civilizations to create such an AI that it will wipe out all organics make less sense then something that is only happening in 1 persons mind. As the Quarians already proved civilizations are able enough to create true AI's. So good that it almost killed themselves and had to flee their homeworld. It had such an impact the counsel banned research on true AI (not that people kept to that. Just because people did not like the fact that everything they worked for in the end more or less counted for almost nothing. The ending on itself makes sense in a way. It is a very logical albeit skewered way of thinking. As other people pointed out the indoctrination doesn't make sense because then the game was shipped unfinished. If the indoctrination is correct there is no ending
|
|
|
Post by Rinn on Apr 2, 2012 18:52:59 GMT
I haven't read this entire thread cos it's long and I'm hungry ![8D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/insane.png) BUUUUUUUUUT... You are gonna read at least the last post >.> It took me almost 3 hours to create that post to debunk that theory so even if i have to force you to read it you will. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png) For me the ending could already never outdo the ending of the Persius Veil quests. I sided with the Geth too much and the Quarians didn't listen to reason so the Geth literally obliterated the Quarians while protecting themselves(bloody frikking stupid-ass Quarians). At that point Legion already die due to uploading the Reapers code to make them true AI's. Due to the massacre of the Quarians Tali commits suicide. So in one mission i lost 2 team members and got the Quarian race wiped from existence. All I wanted was to try and make peace between those two... To add insult to injury the destroy option (that i picked) also destroys the Geth. :/ I'll read it later ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) I was trying to get them to co-operate, but I accidently picked the option which led to Tali's suicide, which I DID NOT want, so I redid the last bit of the mission and let Legion die, since he would've either way. Sorry Legion =( He's cute: 'Shepard-Commander'. Here's what I posted on my Tumblr: (first paragraph is what someone said to me, rest is my reply) isa-hari replied to your post: I finally finished Mass Effect 3. I agree wholeheartedly on the Galaxy Readiness thing…multiplayer isn’t really my thing and I lost a lot of good soldiers because of it D: That whole ending made me ![:(](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/sad.png) My ME3 ending *under the cut for spoilers* I lost Thane (but I assume everyone does), Padok Wiks (Mordin replacement, since Mordin was the only person I lost in the ME2 suicide mission), Eve, Legion and Miranda. I think that’s it… Originally I lost Tali, but I redid the mission and killed the geth instead, thereby losing Legion - I HAD to choose! =( I didn’t pass the reputation check that lets you save both the geth and the quarians. Anderson died at the final mission, after I shot the Illusive Man, and after talking to him. I was disappointed to barely see Jack, who I had started to like, and Zaeed who is awesome. The new EDI was great, and I loved the Joker/EDI relationship! <3 I used her in combat once though, and didn’t like her so much for that xD My team was always Garrus and Liara/Tali, Liara for the final battle. When it got to the conduit bit, I thought I’d lost EVERYONE because of what Shepard hears the marine say, but then all my squadmates were safely on the Normandy (not sure how Garrus and Liara got there, but I’m not going to complain =P). I wanted to save Shepard too, so her and Garrus could have their human-turian babies, or adopt baby Krogans, but seems my EMS wasn’t high enough for Shepard to survive =( I chose the Destroy option, and ended with mostly Renegade. All races survived (apart from the Reapers obviously) but I think Earth may have been devastated - there was a massive flame spreading across it, but after it died down the soldiers were cheering. Thing is, with the Mass Relays destroyed, almost all races are stuck in the Sol relay… what about resources? There’s not going to be enough for everyone. So haven’t I essentially sent everyone to their doom anyway? o.o Urdnot Wreav, Wrex’s replacement, sucks. I lost Wrex in ME1 because my intimidate wasn’t high enough to save him, so he had to be killed by either me or Ashley. I killed him for the Renegade, then left Ashley to die on Virmire because she effectively made me kill him *holds a grudge against Ashley*. Final cutscene made me want to cry. I don’t want this to be the last of the games, I need more ;___;
|
|
Kyactus
Level 7
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_blue.png)
~ Black Ballonist ~
Posts: 2,821
|
Post by Kyactus on Apr 2, 2012 20:06:01 GMT
Still avoiding to answer how you can survive an explosion like that distant a few cms, and what are the whispers you can hear before shep breathes and why they fade out when he breathes again, tbh.
The game has NO ending indeed, they shipped without it because they wanted to make a DLC since the beginning, that's obvious.
Also, codex also says that citadel may was built by protheans... but look! We know it wasn't! Codex is wrong, omg? The game has no sense anymore! (CONTINUE-Im with psp)
|
|
Kyactus
Level 7
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_blue.png)
~ Black Ballonist ~
Posts: 2,821
|
Post by Kyactus on Apr 2, 2012 20:15:01 GMT
The codex is something people all over the galaxy updates imo. Sort of a "news" journal or an encyclopedia in costant updating. It is NOT infallible.
As regard "incoming unconsciousness etc.", you say it's from being injured by the beam. Prove that to me. Guess you can't, neither can I about considering them as signs of indoctrination.
When you can prove me that a man can survive a big explosion after being injured by a cosmic beam, I might consider the final events on the citadel to be true.
|
|
|
Post by D Moness on Apr 2, 2012 20:22:22 GMT
ou say it's from being injured by the beam. Prove that to me. Guess you can't, neither can I about considering them as signs of indoctrination. easy you get the same redish aura when you get up again after getting hit by the beam around you when you get really wounded when in the shooter parts. aka you are badly wounded. as for the explosions , people can survive such a blast (has happen irl before) you get terrible burned but you can survive such a fire blast. As for the citadel exploding is never is conclusive the explosions are around the area Shepard is in. Ok now to be a bit of a bitch. You said to disprove the theory. and answer the questions. I did enough to make the theory look less believable. For me that is enough reason to think the theory is incorrect. What others think i do not care. All my reasoning is in that post and i am not going to explain more of it since it just keeps on repeating what i already stated.
|
|
Kyactus
Level 7
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_blue.png)
~ Black Ballonist ~
Posts: 2,821
|
Post by Kyactus on Apr 2, 2012 20:59:07 GMT
No you didn't understand what I meant. You said that the black aura in the corner is due to being injured. Prove that to me. Why couldn't it be a sign of indoctrination? ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png) Codex (already proven to not be infallible) says that indoctrination may show as any kind of subliminal message. If all THAT is happening in shep mind isn't subliminal msg then... LOL! Also, you were in the middle of an explosition after being nearly killed by a goddamn ray. You weren't healty and jumping as a my little pony. CONTINUE
|
|
Kyactus
Level 7
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_blue.png)
~ Black Ballonist ~
Posts: 2,821
|
Post by Kyactus on Apr 2, 2012 21:09:22 GMT
Last thing, since you have proven to be immature as you just decided to cut off the discussion while I was just trying to discuss it peacefully... ALL the central part of the citadel, the one where you have to choose the 3 options, EXPLODES (just checked the ending). So you survive a cosmic beam, an explosion at a few cms distance AND a huge explosion vaporizing the place you are actually standing... WOW John Shepard is the reincarnation of Jesus Christ, whatsoever! I can believe to a new God!
|
|
Tangerine
Level 7
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_blue.png)
~Emissary of Dancing~
Posts: 2,682
|
Post by Tangerine on Apr 2, 2012 21:11:09 GMT
Despite not caring about this discussion, games are not bound by in game lore ...in this case the 'codex' and developers can change whatever they feel like whenever, developers love to 'retcon' things with what they think are better idea's. So just be careful both of you citing it :S just in case bioware ever write a ...'this is facts' thing ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png)
|
|
Kyactus
Level 7
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_blue.png)
~ Black Ballonist ~
Posts: 2,821
|
Post by Kyactus on Apr 2, 2012 21:20:09 GMT
In fact I never considered codex a 100% source, and I've already proven why (codex: citadel probably built by protheans. /// Player's knowledge: Prothean found the citadel already there, they didn't built that)
|
|
Tangerine
Level 7
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_blue.png)
~Emissary of Dancing~
Posts: 2,682
|
Post by Tangerine on Apr 2, 2012 21:21:35 GMT
In fact I never considered codex a 100% source, and I've already proven why (codex: citadel probably built by protheans. /// Player's knowledge: Prothean found the citadel already there, they didn't built that) Ugh ..I dont pay attention to ANY mass effect details at all xD Im just here bearing a neutral response....NEUTRAL. Unless it somehow turns into FF (which I hope not) ...then ill start getting biatchy on yo ass Kya <3
|
|
Kyactus
Level 7
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_blue.png)
~ Black Ballonist ~
Posts: 2,821
|
Post by Kyactus on Apr 3, 2012 12:29:25 GMT
You are gonna read at least the last post >.> It took me almost 3 hours to create that post to debunk that theory so even if i have to force you to read it you will. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png) For me the ending could already never outdo the ending of the Persius Veil quests. I sided with the Geth too much and the Quarians didn't listen to reason so the Geth literally obliterated the Quarians while protecting themselves(bloody frikking stupid-ass Quarians). At that point Legion already die due to uploading the Reapers code to make them true AI's. Due to the massacre of the Quarians Tali commits suicide. So in one mission i lost 2 team members and got the Quarian race wiped from existence. All I wanted was to try and make peace between those two... To add insult to injury the destroy option (that i picked) also destroys the Geth. :/ I'll read it later ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) I was trying to get them to co-operate, but I accidently picked the option which led to Tali's suicide, which I DID NOT want, so I redid the last bit of the mission and let Legion die, since he would've either way. Sorry Legion =( He's cute: 'Shepard-Commander'. Here's what I posted on my Tumblr: (first paragraph is what someone said to me, rest is my reply) isa-hari replied to your post: I finally finished Mass Effect 3. I agree wholeheartedly on the Galaxy Readiness thing…multiplayer isn’t really my thing and I lost a lot of good soldiers because of it D: That whole ending made me ![:(](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/sad.png) My ME3 ending *under the cut for spoilers* I lost Thane (but I assume everyone does), Padok Wiks (Mordin replacement, since Mordin was the only person I lost in the ME2 suicide mission), Eve, Legion and Miranda. I think that’s it… Originally I lost Tali, but I redid the mission and killed the geth instead, thereby losing Legion - I HAD to choose! =( I didn’t pass the reputation check that lets you save both the geth and the quarians. Anderson died at the final mission, after I shot the Illusive Man, and after talking to him. I was disappointed to barely see Jack, who I had started to like, and Zaeed who is awesome. The new EDI was great, and I loved the Joker/EDI relationship! <3 I used her in combat once though, and didn’t like her so much for that xD My team was always Garrus and Liara/Tali, Liara for the final battle. When it got to the conduit bit, I thought I’d lost EVERYONE because of what Shepard hears the marine say, but then all my squadmates were safely on the Normandy (not sure how Garrus and Liara got there, but I’m not going to complain =P). I wanted to save Shepard too, so her and Garrus could have their human-turian babies, or adopt baby Krogans, but seems my EMS wasn’t high enough for Shepard to survive =( I chose the Destroy option, and ended with mostly Renegade. All races survived (apart from the Reapers obviously) but I think Earth may have been devastated - there was a massive flame spreading across it, but after it died down the soldiers were cheering. Thing is, with the Mass Relays destroyed, almost all races are stuck in the Sol relay… what about resources? There’s not going to be enough for everyone. So haven’t I essentially sent everyone to their doom anyway? o.o Urdnot Wreav, Wrex’s replacement, sucks. I lost Wrex in ME1 because my intimidate wasn’t high enough to save him, so he had to be killed by either me or Ashley. I killed him for the Renegade, then left Ashley to die on Virmire because she effectively made me kill him *holds a grudge against Ashley*. Final cutscene made me want to cry. I don’t want this to be the last of the games, I need more ;___; I don't like the Galaxy Readiness either :/ I don't think you can reach 4000 EMS just by doing all the single player, actually. And lol, Rinn Croft, you lost a lot of members xD Thane, Mordin and Legion's deaths are "mandatory". - Thane is killed by Kai Leng - As regard Mordin I think: or he dies by sacrificing himself to heal the genofagia (what happened for me, so saaad çwç) or you have to kill him before he fix the veil and heal the Krogans, the only way to get the Salarian Help (and I think you would get Krogans' one too, since you deceive them in thinking you healed the genofagia). - Legion, for me it died by getting the reapers' code. I liked it :< Of course I saved both Geth and Quarians ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png) Tho I'm gonna do a Insane mode renegade run and see what happens ![:o](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/shocked.png) (I have to kill Mordin probably *cries* and deceive Krogans... *cries even more*) Also, how could you lose Eve? ![O_o](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/browraise.png) (Eve is the female Krogan right?) Was there an option that would let her die? ![:o](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/shocked.png) I couldn't ever kill Wrex in ME 1, since he was my favourite chara along with Tali. And Yes, Wreav sucks ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png) My team was always EDI and Garrus/Tali (Garrus until I got Tali). I liked EDI because she had the skills to destory both Armors and Shields. Tali because... well, she is my favourite character ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png) Also, as a secondary skill, I got Tali's one, the one that absorb shields. I wanted a Krogan in the team tho :< (Wreeeex çwç <3) ------------- Just another thing I've noticed, the illusionary boy at the end, when he tells you the effects of every end choices, it does not tell you ANY good effects the renegade option will bring... while the two others will always bring positive effects... such a "coincidence" ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png) Of course the reapers are tricking you to not choose the renegade one. I mean, if they put you in front of a three choices, and they say two of them will save humanity, will stop the cycle of deaths blabla, while the others will destory all galaxy portals, the cicle won't end blabla, I guess you would been persuaded to choose the other twos ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png)
|
|
|
Post by Rinn on Apr 3, 2012 12:39:25 GMT
Just thought I'd post my overall thoughts on the game here: I don’t think the ending was the catastrophe that a lot of people thought it was, but it left a lot to be desired, a lot of unanswered questions and a few plot holes. I don’t doubt in the slightest that Shepard would willingly sacrifice her/himself to save the galaxy. That sort of action is exactly something Shepard would do. But it still left me feeling sad, because I honestly felt as though I had so little control over what happened, and I didn’t really feel like I’d saved the galaxy, just gotten rid of the reapers. Everyone trapped in the Sol system, the crew of the Normandy stranded on a tropical planet… sure, they’re all alive, but how long will everyone survive in the one system? With the Mass Effect relays destroyed, no-one can get back to their own systems. And despite my efforts to finish every quest, scan every planet and visit every system, my EMS just wasn’t enough. I now wonder if the Synthesize option was available to me and I didn’t realise. Either way my EMS wasn’t enough to save Shepard when I chose Destroy, which is the only way Shepard can be saved. The general gameplay was fantastic, as usual. I just love this series. The mix of shooter and RPG is just right, the dialogue and acting is brilliant. No other game has ever caused me to feel so emotional - during the run to the conduit, when the marine mentioned everyone had been obliterated and I was stood there by myself I was going ‘Nononononono!’ but carried on the game, with the intention of redoing the mission, or restarting from an earlier point in order to save everyone. Luckily, the marine was wrong. The scene with the Normandy escaping the explosion also scared me, I honestly thought everyone was going to die just like that. And the flashbacks of all the crew members! Not at all ashamed to admit that the ME games can make me cry. One thing I didn’t like was the lack of contact with major characters from ME2. Jack, Zaeed, Miranda, Thane, Jacob… sure I got to meet them, but just as I was starting to like Jack, I suddenly never see her again! I think I met with her once in Purgatory, for a spot of Shepard-dancing: ![](http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk245/SilentLaws/ShepardDance.gif) and that was it. Also, good luck if you romanced someone other than Garrus, Tali, Liara, Kaidan or Ashley. You will rarely see them. When I was playing the mission where you can choose to upload the Reaper tech and control the Geth, I was trying to pass the reputation check so I could get the Quarians and Geth to co-operate. But I ended up making Tali kill herself. I was just sat there speechless as this happened, then SCREAMED at my computer and redid the mission to save her. As much as I like Legion, I wanted Tali more. If you choose the Geth over the Quarians, and then choose the Destroy option at the end, then you’ve lost both races. As for the new characters, I don’t really know what to think of James. He seemed like a typical meathead but then he showed a gentler, more genuine side later on - I think there could’ve been a bit more interaction with him though, as he was a completely new face. And I LOVE EDI! ![8D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/insane.png) One thing I truly regret with my ending is not finally hooking her and Joker up properly. So overall, yes I loved the game. It’s Mass Effect. It’s Commander Shepard. It’s the game series I love so much. The only issue is the ending, but I’d describe it more as a disappointment than a disaster. @kya: Apparently you can save Mordin, there's something on the wiki, but it all depends on decisions from the previous games =/ And Eve did die, yup =/ Here's what the wiki says as to why she died, cos I can't quite remember: 'If the player chose to destroy Maelon's data back in Mass Effect 2, then at the very end of the genophage cure quest line on Tuchanka, regardless of whether or not the player chose to allow Mordin or Wiks to fix the sabotaged cure, Eve will collapse and die due to complications coming from having the genophage cure being based on incomplete data.'. I don't remember destroying the data though I guess I must've. Oh and here's how Mordin can be saved: 'Mordin can be saved during the mission if Wrex isn't alive, Maelon's data was not saved, which leads to Eve's death, and the genophage cure is sabotaged. If Mordin is saved, and the genophage cure is sabotaged as a result, the salarians will offer their support as well as krogan support under Urdnot Wreav, as the krogan will be unaware of the sabotage, with Mordin helping out as well.'So if I'd sabotaged the cure, I would've saved Padok, typical =/
|
|